Pinas Forum

apple · Member

Church lands covered by agrarian reform law

apple · Member

The Big Con

If the moral authorities are really serious about morality and wanting to help the poor, they can easily do it by giving their enormous wealth to the Filipino poor

They don't, because they do not want to. Instead they lead privileged lives and want more of it. Like cucarachas, they ask for alms, perpetrating the Catholic culture of mendicancy wherever they prevail.

The Catholic church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator and property owner in existence. She is a greater possessor of material riches than any other single institution, corporation, bank, giant trust, government or state of the whole globe. The pope, as the visible ruler of this immense amassment of wealth, is consequently the richest individual of the twentieth century. No one can realistically assess how much he is worth in terms of billions of dollars.

In the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit...
the richest man on earth? And the top moral authority of the world to boot.
Not bad for a former Hitler Youth member.

The Vatican's treasure of solid gold has been estimated by the United Nations World Magazine to amount to several billion dollars. A large bulk of this is stored in gold ingots with the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank, while banks in England and Switzerland hold the rest. But this is just a small portion of the wealth of the Vatican, which in the U.S. alone, is greater than that of the five wealthiest giant corporations of the country. When to that is added all the real estate, property, stocks and shares abroad, then the staggering accumulation of the wealth of the Catholic church becomes so formidable as to defy any rational assessment.

halle · Newbie

The Catholic church's power comes from their schools and their money. Thus:

1) Private sectarian schools need to be secularized and/or nationalized.

2) They should be made to pay taxes.

3) Their enormous landholdings need to be land reformed. Given the purported nature of their organization, they have no business accummulating this kind of wealth.

4) Finally, there is also the need to publicize the despicable and numerous sexual abuse scandal cases, publication of which the church obstructs and obfuscates on, as they do/did with the story of Rizal and his works.

Forget that separation of church and state issue. The Catholic church does not respect it, the government should ignore it likewise. Religious freedom should be confined to worship. It should not be extended to profit making and political work. Besides, that reverence for organized religion is not Filipino. Just because western countries treat them in a special way does not mean it's the right way. This is "heathen" Asia and Rizal land. We do not like priests here, especially Catholic priests. Their values are Roman. They should move to the west where they belong.

dolfo · Newbie

Sobra na yata iyan, ah. Di ba dapat magpasalamat tayo sa simbahang katoliko? Kung wala sila, wala ding Ateneo. Kung wala sila, wala ding Edsa 1, Edsa 2, atbp.

cielo · Newbie

dolfo wrote:

Kung wala sila, wala ding Ateneo.

We can do without these sectarian schools. The best university in the Philippines is public and secular, UP, and an objective proof of that is that it is the only university in the Philippines whose standard of college education is recognized wherever you are in the world. Ex., unlike UP grads, an Atenean must first take and pass a college equivalency test before he can be accepted into a US grad program. Then you have the Makilings, PSHS, PMA. . . which are very exceptionally good schools.

Sectarian schools were only special before the 70s? 80?, when the competition was still establishing itself. Now they are only ordinary schools. They are just elitist and have highly privileged and rich students, but even in that class, many of those who make it to UP opt to go there now.

Contrary to the 50s and 60s generation perception, now, you have quite a number of the richest families in the country going to UP like some Aboitizes, Zobels, Sorianos, Yulos, and let's not forget the children of top govt officials and businessmen, because that's where their parents finished college. And a number of my classmates came from Forbes Park and other rich enclaves of Manila. Iyong mga very conservative and ultra-traditional families who still insist their kids go to their great grandparents' alma maters and the not-so-smart kids of the rich who cannot pass UP admission tests na lang ang pumupunta sa mga private universities ngayon.

Besides, the private sectarian schools can always be nationalized and turned into Makilings, PSHS, PMAs and the like. And they can even remain elistist, basta secularized lang. Because whatever advantage the Catholic church gives to society is far outweighed by the disadvantages: a corrupt and intolerant church (read Padre Damaso) who meddles in politics, and propagates a culture of ignorance (anti-woman, anti-science, anti-modernity), mendicancy and slave mentality.

cielo · Newbie

dolfo wrote:

Kung wala sila, wala ding Edsa 1, Edsa 2, atbp.

Oh, please. Don't flatter yourself. It is condescending and presumptuous. The EDSAs did not happen because of the Catholic church. If the church had that kind of power over the population, then Erap would have lost his presidential bid, something Sin really fought very hard for. Instead, Erap won by an unprecedented majority. If the Catholic church is that influential, then the Manila Pen, the ONLY mainly church-organized and sponsored "EDSA," would have happened. And they know their limitations - hindi pa nagsimula, naghingi na sila ng tulong sa communist-cum-leftist groups to provide the warm bodies at obvious hindi nila kaya. But even with that, their big monies, plus the contribution of their businessmen and trapo allies, palpak pa rin.

EDSA2 was mainly sponsored by the businessmen irate over Erap's tampering with the stock market and the like, starting with the Zobels and Roxas walking out. People generally have more respect for their kind than the church, and without them, EDSA2 would have been another Manila Pen. Because who really cares about jueteng except churchmen with their twisted sense of morality? Jueteng should in fact be legalized so govt has more revenue. The richest man and church on earth sucking up the blood of the Fiilpino poor is a lot worse than that.

Just because you and your ilk joined EDSA1 due to your religious affiliation does not mean that that was why everyone else was there for that reason, too. In fact, I do not know a single person who went there because of the church or Aquino, and I personally know at least a few hundred people who were there. Unlike the church who love the dyed-in-the-wool Catholic, Cory, they actually would have preferred an experienced statesman like Laurel, to Cory, who's only right to it was having a trapo husband martyred by martial law. Only those wearing yellow were clearly Cory and mostly Catholic, including the rich's servants and a considerably large paid hakot crowd. There were the guys wearing black and red bands who also joined EDSA1, men who are mostly leftists and atheists for god's sake, who have no great love for Aquino. And there were the ordinary Filipinos, like my parents and relatives and their friends and their families, the people who neither wore yellow nor black and red, many of them secular men, who did not even believe propping up a housewife for president just because Cory is a dyed-in-the-wool Catholic was good for the Philippines, but who joined the protests anyway because they were anti-martial law.

EDSA1 was far from a religious revolution and a show of support for Aquino as the cult groupies like to paint it. It won the hearts of the Filipino because it was a protest against martial law!

The church only got center stage kasi may messianic complex talaga ang mga personalities diyan and because Cory is a dyed-in-the-wool Catholic na bilib sa kanila. Also, mahilig mag photo-op, presscon at anu-ano pang propaganda, obviously for conversion reasons, thereby increasing the profitability of the enterprise. Also, mga egoist lang talaga ang mga iyan, who who like to take credit even when there is very little due, worse than trapos.

The youth then, like Abraham Sarmiento, Jr. and my titos, titas and parents as well as other Filipinos, organized, politicized and fought against martial law almost as soon as soon as it was declared and all throughout. You and your ilk only joined the rest of us when the public outcry was already unignorable and overwhelming, and when practically everyone was already against Marcos.

And that's fine as politics is not your turf. But don't you tell me that Filipinos owe the Catholic church anything! That is a distortion of history. I'm not stupid. I know my history and propaganda when I see it. Because look (see pix below) where the big guy was at the height of Marcos' power. You just dumped Marcos when he became expedient. Throughout martial law, you partied with Marcos. I think I have just described an opportunist, not a hero or savior.

If Filipinos owe anyone for EDSA1, they owe it to themselves for being out there. It is the ordinary Filipino who is the hero of EDSA and the youth who died fighting martial law when the outcome was uncertain. Not some trapo reformed by martyrdom. That one behaved even worse than our current rabble rousers campaigning for the presidency by cooking up all sorts of intrigues and scandals and refusing to concede his party's loss and Marcos' re-election in 1969(?). Hell, he even wanted to declare martial law. Naunahan lang siya ni Marcos palagi. And the hero of EDSA is definitely not a reformed cult leader who was part of Marcos' clerico-fascist establishment repackaged as heroes by the Catholic church and the Aquino groupies.

Note that, in the second picture, it is the big guy who puts his arms on Marcos' shoulder, and it is not Marcos but Imelda who is a big fan of his and kisses his hand

. . .

-- Edited by cielo at 02:53, 2008-01-27

silo · Newbie

If the private Catholic schools are not secularized nor nationalized, and if the Catholic church is allowed to accumulate even more wealth and the power that comes with it, you will never be rid of the abnormal phenomenon of praying mantises in government: trapos with no balls who kiss the hand of men in skirts, and mediocre men in government, often asexual and anti-woman, propped up by the Catholic church whose only qualification for public office is their religious fervor. And the problem will get bigger and bigger.

faust · Newbie

apple wrote:

LATIN
In nomine patris, et fillii, et spiritus sancti.

ENGLISH
In the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit.

Salin sa Tagalog, sabi ni Marcelo H. Del Pilar

Ang tanda nang cara- i- cruz ang ipangadya mo sa amin Panginoon naming Fraile sa manga bangkay naming, sa ngalan nang Salapi at nang Maputing binte, at nang Espiritung Bugaw. Siya naua.

doc · Member

I think we need to re-establish our own church, a church that is representative of the world view of the Filipino and sensitive to our needs as a people. As Elizabeth I did in England.

chito · Member

doc wrote:

I think we need to re-establish our own church, a church that is representative of the world view of the Filipino and sensitive to our needs as a people. As Elizabeth I did in England.

I hate religion. But I can see your point, doc. As we have so many religious zealots in this country, maybe the government can use that to our advantage, instead of a force that hampers progress. If we have one national state church, it can be used to unify the populace. The government certainly can certainly use the money contributions.

tala · Member

PAGCOR a la Vatican

All religions have based morality on obedience, that is to say, on voluntary slavery. That is why they have always been more pernicious than any political organisation. For the latter makes use of violence, the former - of the corruption of the will. --Alexander Herzen

tala · Member

Bad idea, Chito. It's disgusting how the Catholic church makes money by capitalizing on poverty and desperation. It's no different from gambling. We don't really want our government to engage in a racket. Halle's suggestion below is better.

However, Anitismo can be used by the government to propel a nationalist movement that affirms our Filipino-ness. A homage to our culture and being Filipino. To make them conscious of their heritage and to be proud of it. Anitismo is the one thing that binds practically all Filipinos together, regardless of their religious beliefs. An affirmation of our oneness.

Take the Anitista rituals from the Catholic church that uses it to get the crowds and increase business. E.g. fertility rituals, harvests... and I don't know what that sado-masochistic one is that they do on Holy Week when they get drunk and celebrate flogging and crucifying men. That may not be indigenous, rather a Roman import that our Catholics appropriated and turned into an Anitista festival.

Turn these traditions into regular community bonding rituals, like the church does, and take contributions.

halle wrote:

The Catholic church's power comes from their schools and their money. Thus:

1) Private sectarian schools need to be secularized and/or nationalized.

2) They should be made to pay taxes.

3) Their enormous landholdings need to be land reformed. Given the purported nature of their organization, they have no business accummulating this kind of wealth.

4) Finally, there is also the need to publicize the despicable and numerous sexual abuse scandal cases, publication of which the church obstructs and obfuscates on, as they do/did with the story of Rizal and his works.

Forget that separation of church and state issue. The Catholic church does not respect it, the government should ignore it likewise. Religious freedom should be confined to worship. It should not be extended to profit making and political work. Besides, that reverence for organized religion is not Filipino. Just because western countries treat them in a special way does not mean it's the right way. This is "heathen" Asia and Rizal land. We do not like priests here, especially Catholic priests. Their values are Roman. They should move to the west where they belong.

banana · Member

faust wrote:

apple wrote:

LATIN
In nomine patris, et fillii, et spiritus sancti.

ENGLISH
In the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit.

Salin sa Tagalog, sabi ni Marcelo H. Del Pilar

Ang tanda nang cara- i- cruz ang ipangadya mo sa amin Panginoon naming Fraile sa manga bangkay naming, sa ngalan nang Salapi at nang Maputing binte, at nang Espiritung Bugaw. Siya naua.

The Sign

Over our corpses, make the sign of the cross on the face and pray for us, our Priest, our God,

In the name of the Money, White Meat, and the Holy Pimp.

. . . . .

All this is chicanery that teaches 3 things.

Honor thy Priest... fear him... and kiss his hand.

banana · Member

doc wrote:
I think we need to re-establish our own church, a church that is representative of the world view of the Filipino and sensitive to our needs as a people. As Elizabeth I did in England.

Not Henry VIII nor Elizabeth I. Andres Bonifacio. That was over 100 years ago. It is more fitting to make Anitismo a secular movement now, the natural progression after Rizal. Of course, individuals can do their own worship thing to whoever their god may be, but that should be done in private or in separate groups. from the official movement. The focus should be our Filipino-ness, not bathala.

banana · Member

doc wrote:
I think we need to re-establish our own church, a church that is representative of the world view of the Filipino and sensitive to our needs as a people. As Elizabeth I did in England.

Not Henry VIII nor Elizabeth I. Andres Bonifacio, click here. That was over 100 years ago. A religious movement is not a good idea. It is more fitting to make Anitismo a secular movement now, the natural progression after Rizal. Of course, individuals can do their own worship thing to whoever their god may be, but that should be done in private or in groups separate from the official movement. The focus should be our Filipino-ness, not bathala.